Ask Your Mates Open Forum

Building Condition Assessment

  • 1.  Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 04 February 2020 18:45

    Hi
    We are planning to perform the building condition assessment inhouse. Does any one know what is the VAGO requirement for the qualification of the condition assessor? Have anyone experience the issue with external auditors relating to the qualification of the inspection officer.
    Looking forward to get in touch,
    Kind regards
    Satish

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  • 2.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 13 April 2020 19:48
    Hi Satish,

    The VAGO doesn't  care who councils use to undertake the condition assessment of their buildings, unless you are requiring the assessor to then value those assets for financial reporting purposes, in which case they will care.

    To be safe, you should utilise a qualified valuer and one who is a member of the Australian Property Institute and/or Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors.

    If you remain in doubt, ask the VAGO, they are usually very approachable

    ------------------------------
    Martin Burns
    National Director - Valuation
    Liquid Pacific
    North Sydney NSW 2060
    www.liquidpacific.com
    ------------------------------

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  • 3.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 15 April 2020 00:38
    Hi Satish,
    I think VAGO may only care about the qualification of those who are providing valuations.
    I have managed condition assessments for a number of different assets over a number of years. If it purely is condition assessments that your after I don't believe there are any requirements for qualifications. But I stress you do due diligence to ensure that those doing the assessments have the skills and experience in the area they assess; be it building structure, building fabric or building services.
    I have found that engaging our existing maintenance service providers to regularly assess mech and electrical plant for instance has been very successful in not only getting good results but keeps them on their toes in terms seeking replacement or upgrade options.
    If it is a large assessment project covering a many assets and components that requires several auditors, I cant underestimate the importance of good internal training, central supervision and quality assurance to maintain consistent assessment opinions and results.
    I hope this helps you somewhat.
    Regards
    Glenn
    ----------------
    Glenn Angus
    Facilities Planning Coordinator
    Deakin Residential Services.
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  • 4.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 15 April 2020 01:59
    VAGO is only concerned about the valuation process. As part of this though they will be interested in condition assessment and how it is used to drive the valuation. The condition assessment does not need to be done by the valuer. For some councils we have done programs where we provide tools and training to local staff to collect data and we (or they) use that data to drive the valuations through specialised valuation products like Asset Valuer Pro.

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    David Edgerton. FCPA
    Director APV Valuers and Asset Management
    Director Asset Valuer Pro
    David@assetvaluer.net. David@apv.net
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  • 5.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 16 April 2020 19:19
    ​Hi Satish,
    I recommend the use of a standard code for condition asssessment and classification, in order to ensure that the assessment is as much as independant of the invidual who does the assessment.
    In the EU the CEN/TS 17385 "Method for condition assessment of immobile constructed assets" has been developed, which has been derived from the NEN 2767 which was developed in the Netherlands by the state department for civil buildings.
    Regards,
    Geert Henk

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    Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards / Mit freundlichem Gruß / مع أطيب التحيات / Saludos cordiales


    Geert Henk Wijnants
    Principal Consultant

    Stork Asset Management Technology
    Van Deventerlaan 121, 3528 AG Utrecht
    P.O. Box 2776, 3500 GT, Utrecht
    The Netherlands

    Mobile: +31 (0)6 13357246
    Email: geerthenk.wijnants@stork.com
    Website: www.stork.comNetherlands
    ------------------------------

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  • 6.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 16 April 2020 19:20
    Hi

    As you know physical condition assessment requiring a lot of time and cost. NAMS already developed a hierarchy model indicating useful life cycle of  building components.
    Using NAMS model we derived a predictable condition and cost based model that assists to be proactive when decision making. It is being used by several local city councils in Melbourne. Using the previous record the system is predicting the recent condition of assets without needing to physical condition assessment. But there is a need to have at least 3 sets of previous condition data. These days a lot of universities are working on machine learning methods for predicting the condition of assets by analyzing condition data.  You can find useful information @ ​http://assethub.com.au/. if you need more information please let me know.
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  • 7.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 16 April 2020 23:03
    Hello Pedram, i just went to your companies website through the link provided to have a look at what your system does, but the 'Get Started' tab is not working.

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    Glenn Angus
    Deakin University
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  • 8.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 21 April 2020 00:56
    Hi Satish,

    Condition Assessment of a Building & Building Components  is performed by a qualified Level 2 Building Inspector. Please note that generally condition assessments performed across most Australian organisation are based on NAMS.PLUS Institute of Public Works Engineering Australia (IPWEA) 1 - 5 criteria. IPWEA has published a document with guidelines for building condition assessments which you can purchase. For multi-complex buildings configured with complex engineering systems, its not uncommon that some building components are outsourced to qualified level 2 inspectors to perform condition assessments say for Mechanical Systems, HVAC systems -  Electrical Systems, Security Systems, Alarm Systems, Fire Protection Systems, Building Structural, Roof Structural, etc.

    I noticed a comment below, that mentioned on Building Valuations. Building Valuations don't provide the condition assessment, but are done to provide revaluation costs to determine the market value of the building to revise/update financial ratios such as ASR, ACR, Depreciation etc, and can also used to come up with the revised unit price for the different building components that will be used by Asset Management to develop 10 Year renewal/replacement programs for the building. Please give me a call on my work number 0436 9444 443 if you need to discuss further. Thanks

    Regards
    Farayi - Asset Engineer (Parks & Waste)
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  • 9.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 22 April 2020 20:34
    Hi Satish

    Neels is correct. If you secure the services of a valuer to provide valuations, then they will provide condition assessments that impact the value of the assets. Market and otherwise.

    If you secure valuers to provide condition assessments for non-valuation purposes, i.e. formulating  capital and maintenance budgets, creating asset management plans, etc, then like all consultants, you need to choose those that demonstrate the best value for money. But there are qualified valuation firms that provide this advice and like Neels, will outsource expertise where required.

    What you do not want  is engineers undertaking valuations in accordance with standards (i.e. international valuation standards) for which they are not aware, or valuation  is not their primary source of business.

    No doubt you will find your way.

    Maybe this one will get through

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    Martin Burns
    National Director - Valuation
    Liquid Pacific
    North Sydney NSW 2060
    www.liquidpacific.com
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  • 10.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 22 April 2020 20:30

    Hi Satish,

    Good to see your organisation is performing the building condition assessment in house.

    As you may be aware, the IPWEA technical reference group known as NAMS Council has produced a series of Practice Notes to assist practitioners with Asset Management and Financial Planning and Reporting of which assessing condition and performance is an integral part.

    The aim of our Practice Notes is to foster a consistent approach to data definitions, inputs and outputs for any asset class and draws on concepts outlined in the International Infrastructure Management Manual (IIMM).

    Practice Note 3 – Building Condition & Performance Assessment Guidelines will help you with your specific requirements and should be read in conjunction with the Preamble Document (a free download) that sets out the generic principles applicable to all infrastructure assets.

    Hope this helps.



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    Murray Erbs
    Chair NAMS Council | IPWEA Australasia
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  • 11.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 28 April 2020 00:52
    Hi Satish,

    Completely support Murray's comments about Practice Note 3.  It will certainly help with your specific requirements.

    SPM Assets/IPWEA's Buildings.PLUS also provide the mechanism to assess buildings at a component level and includes a list of 230 components that SPM Assets maintains annually for unit rates, useful lives and criticality factors.  Buldings.PLUS is also suitable for managing other assets, such as parks, open spaces, playgrounds, recreation centers , housing, and education facilities.

    https://www.ipwea.org/communities/am/buildingsplus

    Regards,
    Laura Blackwell
    Account Manager
    www.spmassets.com
    0412 685 864
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  • 12.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 22 April 2020 20:30
    Hi Satish
    Glenn Angus brought my attention to your plight, so thank you Glenn.
    He is absolutely right in his advice.
    Glenn is a seasoned professional in this area of assets.
    You could do much worse than spend some time on the errors we learnt together, even recently.
    He is a wonderful, experienced, intelligent individual who takes the time to comprehend the environment being managed.

    The single most critical thing about Condition Assessment; is it only condition you get, whether condition is the answer you seek or not.
    Condition answers one issue, but does it address the plethora of other problems abounding in asset conveyancing.
    I say conveyancing, because management is a word taking conveyancing into account.
    The real job is making the outcome match the need.

    First things first, collect what you need, nothing more, nothing less.
    Glenn and I (with others at his employer) learned that the hard way in 2011.
    You don't need structural walls, ceiling lining, lights, substrate for footpaths or playground bases, the material for gravel roads, colour, doors and door handles, even gutters and downpipes can be dealt with in operational matters.

    Second: You have access to mountains of data from existing period contracts, anecdotal information, internal personnel, and local resources.
    So please don't pay anyone to do something twice.
    Harvest wisely what you already possess.

    Third: Condition is only part of the story.
    Strategic Importance, Appearance (for perception assets only), Consumption, Utilisation (yes, they are different), and even the humble Asset Register, can all lead to failure in a major way if not addressed during the process.
    Naming & Numbering Conventions, simple, standard accurate naming and numbering conventions.
    A great example of confusion is footpaths being right & left - how does the auditor, director, asset manager, repairer, contractor, depot manager, concrete truck driver, concreter, form worker, or any other person in the process know whether you were facing east, west, north or south when you nominated the side. They don't, so make you information simple but certain!
    Use the compass as the guide, that way data is easily comprehended by everyone inside and outside the organisation.

    Fourth: Learn who to trust. Cheap and nasty general results in angst & resentment. Find people with experience, capability, and preparedness for change (very, very important).
    Don't collect data for data's sake. That only leads to managing data not assets.

    Feel free to call me and discuss, we do this for hundreds of councils across Australia & NZ.
    I hope our experience benefits you guys in not making the same errors we experienced.

    cheers
    Michael

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  • 13.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 28 April 2020 00:54
    Hi Satish,

    Completely support Murray Erb's comments regarding NAMS Practice Note 3.

    IPWEA/Buildings.Plus also provide the mechanism to assess buildings at a component level and includes a list of 230 components that we maintain annually for unit rates, useful lives and criticality factors.Buildings.Plus is  also suitable for managing other assets, such as parks, open spaces, playgrounds, rec centers, housing and educational facilities.

    https://www.ipwea.org/communities/am/buildingsplus

    Regards,

    Laura Blackwell
    Account Manager
    https://www.spmassets.com/au
    0412 685 864
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  • 14.  RE: Building Condition Assessment

    Posted 28 April 2020 00:57
    Hi Satish,

    Completely support Murray Erb's comments regarding NAMS Practice Note 3.

    IPWEA/Buildings.Plus also provide the mechanism to assess buildings at a component level and includes a list of 230 components that we maintain annually for unit rates, useful lives and criticality factors.Buildings.Plus is  also suitable for managing other assets, such as parks, open spaces, playgrounds, rec centers, housing and educational facilities.

    https://www.ipwea.org/communities/am/buildingsplus

    Regards,

    Laura Blackwell
    Account Manager
    https://www.spmassets.com/au
    0412 685 864
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